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Oct 21 2014, 04:41 am
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Author Topic: ... and again !  (Read 2169 times)
Tux
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... and again !
« on: Nov 01 2012, 08:37 am »

2 new binaries, the main change is the new 7z support for the roms, and while I was at it I added it also to neoraine which means that you can now extract an iso to a 7z file and it will be accepted by neoraine. A word of caution though : it works rather well for the roms having not too many files, but the neocd isos can have really many files sometimes and in this case loading from a 7z file is really noticeably slower, so you'd better not convert everything to 7z in neocd !

For the arcade roms in raine it seems to work rather well, slower than zip of course, but quite fast.

Also this new version of neoraine fixes an unnoticed bug in the intro of "view point".

Grab everything from the usual places, and I'll update the linux packages later... !

EDIT : and the debian packages are updated too now... and I had to fight again !
EDIT2 : debian amd64 packages contained debug builds by mistake, so I remade them, they now contain the fix for the scanlines as a bonus !
EDIT3 : never 2 without 3... oh well the neoraine windows binary was a debug version too, and it contained a bug when trying to load a game from the command line (mainly for frontends), so there is a new binary, called neoraine-1.3.5-2. Let's hope this is the end of it !
« Last Edit: Nov 12 2012, 12:54 am by Tux »
mer-curious
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Re: ... and again !
« Reply #1 on: Nov 04 2012, 03:58 am »

Hi, Tux. Sorry for taking so long to reply.

I've been trying to reproduce the bug that makes the SFX sometimes deteriorate in KOF '97. Unfortunately it doesn't happen if you play the demo for some time as you suggested (I tried it for around 20 minutes and it didn't show up), but only when you try to beat the game all the way to Orochi (the boss). It takes about 40 minutes to beat the game (in beginner mode), that's why I got very bored about trying it again and again. I will let you know whenever I find a guaranteed way to reproduce it. But I've noticed that enabling the "smallest_sound_buffer" option considerably reduced the times I saw the bug. Perhaps it's something related to this?

I also noticed the input has some problems with my PS-to-USB converter. When I have analog mode on on the PlayStation 2 controller (the led is red), the digital directional pad will work as a hat switch in the driver. So when I try to set Player 1 directions to the directional pad in NeoRaine it will be registered like this:

Player 1 Up - Stick 3 LEFT
Player 1 Down - Stick 3 RIGHT
Player 1 Left - Stick 2 UP
Player 1 Right - Stick 2 DOWN

Although the directions are misnamed, they work fine in the gameplay, I mean, Stick 3 LEFT is really d-pad Up, Stick 3 RIGHT is indeed d-pad Down, etc. Anyway, do you think this could be fixed?

By the way, the input menu will always show a problem in the default size (640x480) of NeoRaine window, which is the one I generally use. Take a look:



This really lets the menu a bit messed up!


Finally, I think you didn't comment on one issue I reported in my last post, see:

1) I've noticed in the video info that NeoRaine is using 16bpp when in fullscreen mode. I guess this may be related to Windows turning off Aero effects sometimes when we leave fullscreen mode in NeoRaine. So, couldn't NeoRaine use 32bpp instead when in fullscreen mode?


This persists on version 1.3.5.


I guess this is it for now.

Thank you so much for the time and work put into this project.
« Last Edit: Nov 04 2012, 04:03 am by mer-curious »
Tux
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Re: ... and again !
« Reply #2 on: Nov 04 2012, 06:24 am »

got very bored about trying it again and again. I will let you know whenever I find a guaranteed way to reproduce it. But I've noticed that enabling the "smallest_sound_buffer" option considerably reduced the times I saw the bug. Perhaps it's something related to this?

No idea, 40 minutes is a very long time, maybe you could try to forget the computer playing the demo and see what happens after 1 hour and so on...
I'd say the simplest workaround in this case would be : save / exit the emu, restart it, reload the save. Normally the problem is gone.

Quote
Player 1 Up - Stick 3 LEFT
Player 1 Down - Stick 3 RIGHT
Player 1 Left - Stick 2 UP
Player 1 Right - Stick 2 DOWN

Although the directions are misnamed, they work fine in the gameplay, I mean, Stick 3 LEFT is really d-pad Up, Stick 3 RIGHT is indeed d-pad Down, etc. Anyway, do you think this could be fixed?

It's a weirdness of the joystick driver, the way the system sees the joystick. It never sees sticks with 4 axes, for it, it's always about 2 axis sticks and it gives numbers to them. Usually the 1st one is the left-right one, then the up-down one. All the joysticks I have used so far respect this. I guess you just found one which does not.
So no it can't be fixed, there is no way to guess which axis is affected to what in this case, but it should not be a problem once it's configured anyway.

Quote
By the way, the input menu will always show a problem in the default size (640x480) of NeoRaine window, which is the one I generally use. Take a look:



This really lets the menu a bit messed up!

It's only because it's a rare case where the dialog is larger than 640x480.
Since there are settings to forbid the font to become too small it can happen, this one is probably the bigest dialog in raine, so yes it can happen.
In this case you have 2 choices : resize your window to be bigger than that or allow the font to become smaller.

Quote
Finally, I think you didn't comment on one issue I reported in my last post, see:

1) I've noticed in the video info that NeoRaine is using 16bpp when in fullscreen mode. I guess this may be related to Windows turning off Aero effects sometimes when we leave fullscreen mode in NeoRaine. So, couldn't NeoRaine use 32bpp instead when in fullscreen mode?


This persists on version 1.3.5.

Oh well it's just because it's some very old stuff and I needed to read the code again to be sure. 16bpp is the forced choice if you use yuv overlays because they can work only in this depth.
Now the thing is that I don't know any arcade game driver which uses more than 16bpp colors (actually I even think that none uses more than 15bpp). So more than 2 bytes / color is just a waste.
So as it is the program tries 16bpp if it can have the mode without any color conversion (direct rendering). If it does then it takes it, because 2 bytes / pixel is much faster to handle. If there would be a color conversion (like in linux where fullscreen modes are obliged to use desktop bpp for now when not using yuv overlays) then it takes the desktop bpp.
In windows fullscreen modes can have their own bpp with no color conversion, so it always goes to 16bpp.

So the short answer is that for now 16bpp is the ideal bpp everywhere. 8bpp is still used for some very rare game drivers in raine which require it, and 32bpp might be used for some very specific hardware drivers like fbcon in linux, but for the rest of the time 16bpp is always used. You could force the bpp you wanted in 0.43.4 and before.

There was a command line switch from this time, -bpp to force a given bpp. It's currently ignored, I'll restore it partially. Now it will still be ignored if there is some color conversion to do to accept it, but it's accepted in windows fullscreen, so you'll be able to check that but yourself ! (but once you'll have checked, you'll see it's best to let it keep its default 16bpp).

Quote
I guess this is it for now.

Thank you so much for the time and work put into this project.

Oh well it's just from time to time, so it's still quite fun even if it was much better when more people were working on this !
« Last Edit: Nov 04 2012, 07:09 am by Tux »
Huggybaby
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Re: ... and again !
« Reply #3 on: Nov 06 2012, 01:47 am »

I want to add my thanks also Tux, and say that I still come here to read even if I don't always post.
mer-curious
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Re: ... and again !
« Reply #4 on: Jan 13 2013, 11:28 pm »

No idea, 40 minutes is a very long time, maybe you could try to forget the computer playing the demo and see what happens after 1 hour and so on...
Thanks for the ideia. Even though I took long to reply again, I still haven't put that in practice. But I'll let you know the results as soon as I do it.


Quote from: Tux
I'd say the simplest workaround in this case would be : save / exit the emu, restart it, reload the save. Normally the problem is gone.
Thanks for the tip. I hadn't thought about that!


Quote from: Tux
It's a weirdness of the joystick driver, the way the system sees the joystick. It never sees sticks with 4 axes, for it, it's always about 2 axis sticks and it gives numbers to them. Usually the 1st one is the left-right one, then the up-down one. All the joysticks I have used so far respect this. I guess you just found one which does not.
So no it can't be fixed, there is no way to guess which axis is affected to what in this case, but it should not be a problem once it's configured anyway.
Thanks for the explanation. I found it weird because it was the first time I saw it happening.


Quote from: Tux
It's only because it's a rare case where the dialog is larger than 640x480.
Since there are settings to forbid the font to become too small it can happen, this one is probably the bigest dialog in raine, so yes it can happen.
In this case you have 2 choices : resize your window to be bigger than that or allow the font to become smaller.
I fixed the problem by changing the minimum font size to 9. So perhaps this could be the default value for the next versions?


Quote from: Tux
There was a command line switch from this time, -bpp to force a given bpp. It's currently ignored, I'll restore it partially. Now it will still be ignored if there is some color conversion to do to accept it, but it's accepted in windows fullscreen, so you'll be able to check that but yourself ! (but once you'll have checked, you'll see it's best to let it keep its default 16bpp).
I've always used 32bpp in emulators when available, but I think I wouldn't be able to tell the difference from 16bpp.

The only problem here is that sometimes NeoRaine will disable Aero effects when coming from the fullscreen mode, so I thought that setting a constant 32bpp could fix this. Any chance to have that option available from the GUI now with openGL?

Thank you for your great work once again.
« Last Edit: Jan 13 2013, 11:30 pm by mer-curious »
Tux
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Re: ... and again !
« Reply #5 on: Jan 13 2013, 11:55 pm »

Well, start by testing the new opengl driver, and report if you find some problems ! :)
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