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Dec 20 2014, 07:59 am
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| | |-+  raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
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Author Topic: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !  (Read 4446 times)
Tux
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raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« on: Jan 25 2013, 10:07 am »

These versions add support for shaders, as described there.
Notice that these shaders are in xml format, so you can open them in a normal text editor, there are sometimes interesting comments in them. They come from the higan community there, so big thanks to them !
Of course you'll need a good graphics card which can support shaders for that. I tried my best to avoid troubles when the video card is not recent, you should receive an error message in this case and the program will automatically disable the shader.
Except this, there are some interesting bug fixes for the previous version, and a few small changes for neoraine including a logical renaming of inputs, and the possibility to map buttons combinations in the inputs.

The more complex shaders like openhq will be left for later...
Ah and the amd64 deb packages are updated, the i386 ones will follow...
« Last Edit: Jan 25 2013, 10:10 am by Tux »
daninthemix
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #1 on: Jan 25 2013, 12:47 pm »

Awesome - I have a special request though. Can we get a 2xSai + bilinear filter shader? Or does NeoRaine filter the output as standard anyway?
Tux
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #2 on: Jan 25 2013, 01:06 pm »

:)

Patience please, this is just the beginning, I'll probably try the cg shaders next time... (it appears that openhq was a cg shader after all, it's just its distribution which was weird).
If you find some shader somewhere which merges 2xsai + bilinear, you can post a link !

For now I have my views on this : https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders.
You can't use these yet with neoraine, but you can have a look...
« Last Edit: Jan 25 2013, 01:09 pm by Tux »
daninthemix
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #3 on: Jan 25 2013, 01:09 pm »

Sure, I can be patient. I'll have a look. But what I know is on Fusion, 2xSai + bilinear gives a really perfect image that doesn't mess with the art style too much unlike many of the more complex shaders.
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #4 on: Jan 26 2013, 12:13 am »

Ah and the amd64 deb packages are updated, the i386 ones will follow...
I didn't find the Windows version of NeoRaine available in the downloads area. Do you intend to release one?

It's because I don't have a Linux installation yet.

Thanks a lot for the new release.
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #5 on: Jan 26 2013, 01:25 am »

lol, thanks for the info, the archive was on the server, but not the updated page, so it was rather hard to get it.
It's fixed now you can download, sorry !

EDIT : despite this, there were a few downloads of the new version of neoraine, even without the updated page... some people are good sometimes, too bad they don't leave any message !!!
« Last Edit: Jan 26 2013, 01:30 am by Tux »
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #6 on: Jan 26 2013, 09:50 pm »

Hi. Here comes somes impressions from the new version:

- the bugs that I had reported have really been fixed.

- although I haven't updated my drivers, the shaders seem to work fine in both my laptop and desktop. But in my laptop most of them will run slow, and one or two will show me an error message and won't work (I think "pixellate scanlines"  is one of them).

- the "scale4xHQ" don't seem to work for me neither in my desktop. Maybe it's related to my outdated video drivers.

- I didn't like the 5xBR effects at all. They make the pixels very rounded (even if you choose the "squared" option) and very shiny. Maybe if we had more options like 2x, 3x, it would be better. I guess this is due to these filters been made for SNES, and NeoGeo games have more picture quality, many games have good art works which don't look really bad with hires displays, etc.

- about the game input options, when I have my PS2/XBOX/GC-to-USB adaptor connected to the PC, that menu will still be a bit messed. It's because this adaptor has a very long string given by its driver. So I would suggest, for the next version, that default minimum font size be 8. This should fix this little nuisance.

- still talking about the game input menu, I would suggest a little rearrangement of the inputs order.

Something like this:

Player1 A
Player1 B
Player1 C
Player1 D
Player1 Start
Player1 Select (don't forget to captalize the first letter of the "select" word and backspace the "1".
Player1 button combinations
Player2 A
Player2 B
etc.

This way we'll have all the controls for player 1 in one side, and the rest for the player 2. For those who generally play alone, it lets configuration quicker and more intuitive.

- I again saw the sound distorsion bug I was seeing in KOF '97, but now in KOF '99. I still have to find the right way to trigger the bug in order that you can investigate it.

I think that's it for now.

Thanks again for your time.


PS: I forgot to say that I suggested the key combinations because I have a game pad with a face button that will fail to register sometimes, and with the key combinations I can put the function of three inputs on a trigger button that's working good.
Tux
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #7 on: Jan 26 2013, 11:06 pm »

- although I haven't updated my drivers, the shaders seem to work fine in both my laptop and desktop. But in my laptop most of them will run slow, and one or two will show me an error message and won't work (I think "pixellate scanlines"  is one of them).

- the "scale4xHQ" don't seem to work for me neither in my desktop. Maybe it's related to my outdated video drivers.

On both machines yes, not really a surprise. Notice that scale4xhq isn't really great for me, the result is a little blurry. On this side I should allow to choose the filtering method, currently it's bilinear, which does a nice work most of the time, but in fact it tries to hide the pixels by bluring them. Usually it doesn't show, but sometimes it shows. In this case it might be better to be able to choose "nearest" which simply displays the closest pixel from the original picture (it makes big blocky pixels, but no blur). Just an idea, I'll probably add the option to be able to choose, and some shaders explicitely select one of these 2 filtering method, but not this one.

Quote
- I didn't like the 5xBR effects at all. They make the pixels very rounded (even if you choose the "squared" option) and very shiny. Maybe if we had more options like 2x, 3x, it would be better. I guess this is due to these filters been made for SNES, and NeoGeo games have more picture quality, many games have good art works which don't look really bad with hires displays, etc.

a matter of taste. I must say I don't use them often neither. I have played a little with the CRT one, and it's quite cool actually ! :)
There are more shaders in the link I posted the other day, but they are in cg format so they won't work with this version. This is probably the next logical step to take.

Quote
- about the game input options, when I have my PS2/XBOX/GC-to-USB adaptor connected to the PC, that menu will still be a bit messed. It's because this adaptor has a very long string given by its driver. So I would suggest, for the next version, that default minimum font size be 8. This should fix this little nuisance.

And I would suggest you take a bigger resolution for the gui !
Even if you avoid fullscreen, you can have a very big window and none of these issues at all.

Quote
- still talking about the game input menu, I would suggest a little rearrangement of the inputs order.

Something like this:

Player1 A
Player1 B
Player1 C
Player1 D
Player1 Start
Player1 Select (don't forget to captalize the first letter of the "select" word and backspace the "1".
Player1 button combinations
Player2 A
Player2 B
etc.

This way we'll have all the controls for player 1 in one side, and the rest for the player 2. For those who generally play alone, it lets configuration quicker and more intuitive.

Not really convinced here, you don't change the inputs very often usually so it doesn't really matter. I'll update the select string though !
And the order is actually the order in which the hardware has its inputs connected, it makes the driver more readable to have them this way, even though I admit this part is usually never read again once it works !

Quote
- I again saw the sound distorsion bug I was seeing in KOF '97, but now in KOF '99. I still have to find the right way to trigger the bug in order that you can investigate it.

I think that's it for now.

Thanks again for your time.


PS: I forgot to say that I suggested the key combinations because I have a game pad with a face button that will fail to register sometimes, and with the key combinations I can put the function of three inputs on a trigger button that's working good.

No problem, there is also simply the fact that it makes these combinations easier to do.
« Last Edit: Jan 27 2013, 12:53 am by Tux »
daninthemix
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #8 on: Jan 27 2013, 08:12 am »

One problem I have is that NeoRaine doesn't recognise the D-Pad on my Mad Catz Street Fighter pad (which as you can imagine is ideal for playing Neo games!), but does recognise all other buttons.
Tux
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #9 on: Jan 27 2013, 09:38 am »

It's a driver problem, not a neoraine problem.
for the ps2 pads there is a button with a light on it that you can press to change the way the d-pad and the joysticks are detected, maybe you have the same kind of problem.
I found once a d-pad which was detected as real buttons too.

EDIT : on 2nd thought there is indeed a bug at this level which is probably a disaster for pads. It will be fixed in next version, 100% my fault, sorry !
« Last Edit: Jan 31 2013, 09:44 pm by Tux »
Tux
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #10 on: Jan 28 2013, 09:11 pm »

- I again saw the sound distorsion bug I was seeing in KOF '97, but now in KOF '99. I still have to find the right way to trigger the bug in order that you can investigate it.

I thought about this, and there is something I can try here.
Basically our sound code still uses some very old code from 10 years ago or more when sound sync was a delicate problem. It's still a delicate one, but now with sdl there is the option to rely entierly on sdl and not try to do any sound sync at all.
It makes some much easier code too.

So I just wrote something to do that, and it seems to be ok for me, but since you are the one who detected some problems with the old version, it would be cool that you test it before any release. So send a mail or a pm if you want to...

EDIT : too late to test, it's finished. I have spent a huge amount of time on this, the ironic part is that for most people it will make no difference, but I am sure you won't be able to get this kind of problem again now.
« Last Edit: Feb 01 2013, 03:11 pm by Tux »
daninthemix
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #11 on: Jan 29 2013, 07:41 am »

This is a converted version of 2xSai, but can't get it to work. Can you have a quick look and see if you can see why?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2jhn15
Tux
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #12 on: Jan 29 2013, 09:04 am »

It's written it's a "gles2" shader, which means something for opengl es, like what you find from android 2.2.
I don't know anything yet about this, I thought it was upward compatible with opengl, but maybe not after all.
Where did you find it ?
daninthemix
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #13 on: Jan 29 2013, 09:09 am »

A guy on the bsnes / higan messageboard converted it from whatever format it's normally in (HLSL?).
Tux
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Re: raine 0.60.1 and neoraine 1.4.1 : shaders !
« Reply #14 on: Jan 29 2013, 10:24 am »

Yes it's something converted using a python script there :
https://gist.github.com/4082051
You also need the cg toolkit from nvidia to make it work.
Then it's for developpers who know what they are doing, you still need to convert manually a few things here and there.
So I'd say wait until I try to add the cg support !
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